Discussion:
George Washington Cunctator
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D***@teikyopost.edu
2018-03-01 18:51:54 UTC
Permalink
I have seen images of George Washington depicted as Cincinnatus.

http://www.history.org/foundation/journal/autumn03/houdon.cfm

http://www.mountvernon.org/digital-encyclopedia/article/cincinnatus/

But yesterday I first read a comparison of Washington with
Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus Cunctator. On page 182 of "SPQR"

https://www.amazon.com/SPQR-History-Ancient-Mary-Beard/dp/1631492225/

Mary Beard wrote:

"George Washington, the 'American Fabius', as he was sometimes
called, opted for similar tactics at the start of the American
War of Independence, harassing rather than directly engaging
the enemy [...]"

Today I found the mid 20th-century token at

http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_1382669
Tiglath
2018-03-01 19:05:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by D***@teikyopost.edu
I have seen images of George Washington depicted as Cincinnatus.
http://www.history.org/foundation/journal/autumn03/houdon.cfm
http://www.mountvernon.org/digital-encyclopedia/article/cincinnatus/
But yesterday I first read a comparison of Washington with
Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus Cunctator. On page 182 of "SPQR"
https://www.amazon.com/SPQR-History-Ancient-Mary-Beard/dp/1631492225/
"George Washington, the 'American Fabius', as he was sometimes
called, opted for similar tactics at the start of the American
War of Independence, harassing rather than directly engaging
the enemy [...]"
Today I found the mid 20th-century token at
http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_1382669
Fabian tactics have been used to contain many Hannibal like threats.

Hence guerrilla armies.
D***@teikyopost.edu
2018-03-02 04:08:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiglath
Post by D***@teikyopost.edu
I have seen images of George Washington depicted as Cincinnatus.
http://www.history.org/foundation/journal/autumn03/houdon.cfm
http://www.mountvernon.org/digital-encyclopedia/article/cincinnatus/
But yesterday I first read a comparison of Washington with
Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus Cunctator. On page 182 of "SPQR"
https://www.amazon.com/SPQR-History-Ancient-Mary-Beard/dp/1631492225/
"George Washington, the 'American Fabius', as he was sometimes
called, opted for similar tactics at the start of the American
War of Independence, harassing rather than directly engaging
the enemy [...]"
Today I found the mid 20th-century token at
http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_1382669
Fabian tactics have been used to contain many Hannibal like threats.
Hence guerrilla armies.
I was referred to a fascinating statue of Washington depicted as
a Roman General.

http://docsouth.unc.edu/commland/monument/407/
Tiglath
2018-03-02 14:17:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by D***@teikyopost.edu
Post by Tiglath
Post by D***@teikyopost.edu
I have seen images of George Washington depicted as Cincinnatus.
http://www.history.org/foundation/journal/autumn03/houdon.cfm
http://www.mountvernon.org/digital-encyclopedia/article/cincinnatus/
But yesterday I first read a comparison of Washington with
Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus Cunctator. On page 182 of "SPQR"
https://www.amazon.com/SPQR-History-Ancient-Mary-Beard/dp/1631492225/
"George Washington, the 'American Fabius', as he was sometimes
called, opted for similar tactics at the start of the American
War of Independence, harassing rather than directly engaging
the enemy [...]"
Today I found the mid 20th-century token at
http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_1382669
Fabian tactics have been used to contain many Hannibal like threats.
Hence guerrilla armies.
I was referred to a fascinating statue of Washington depicted as
a Roman General.
http://docsouth.unc.edu/commland/monument/407/
The educated in his days were far better educated than today's so called
educated, who are merely trained.

Especially in the Humanities.
D***@teikyopost.edu
2018-03-02 20:37:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiglath
Post by D***@teikyopost.edu
Post by Tiglath
Post by D***@teikyopost.edu
I have seen images of George Washington depicted as Cincinnatus.
http://www.history.org/foundation/journal/autumn03/houdon.cfm
http://www.mountvernon.org/digital-encyclopedia/article/cincinnatus/
But yesterday I first read a comparison of Washington with
Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus Cunctator. On page 182 of "SPQR"
https://www.amazon.com/SPQR-History-Ancient-Mary-Beard/dp/1631492225/
"George Washington, the 'American Fabius', as he was sometimes
called, opted for similar tactics at the start of the American
War of Independence, harassing rather than directly engaging
the enemy [...]"
Today I found the mid 20th-century token at
http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_1382669
Fabian tactics have been used to contain many Hannibal like threats.
Hence guerrilla armies.
I was referred to a fascinating statue of Washington depicted as
a Roman General.
http://docsouth.unc.edu/commland/monument/407/
The educated in his days were far better educated than today's so called
educated, who are merely trained.
Especially in the Humanities.
They were indeed!

The following is from the 23 Dec 2001 issue of Northeast Magazine,
which was an insert in The Hartford (CT) Courant ["The Root (or
Route) of Treason," by Kyrie O'Connor, Page 2].

"Of course, as is often noted, one man's traitor is another man's
freedom fighter. Patrick Henry's historical references will sail
over the heads of many college grads these days. But they must
have stirred the Virginia House of Burgesses in 1765 when he
proclaimed: 'Tarquin and Caesar each had his Brutus, Charles the
First his Cromwell, and George the Third may profit by their
example. If this be treason, make the most of it.'"

On page 42 of Joseph J. Ellis' "Founding Brothers" (Knopf), there
is a comment that Alexander Hamilton made about Aaron Burr during
the disputed presidential election of 1800. During one debate in
the House, Hamilton referred to Burr as: "He is truly the Catiline
of America." Ellis comments that, while most American university
students would be completely baffled by this analogy, in those
days most people knew exactly what Hamilton was talking about.
Tiglath
2018-03-02 22:04:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by D***@teikyopost.edu
Post by Tiglath
Post by D***@teikyopost.edu
Post by Tiglath
Post by D***@teikyopost.edu
I have seen images of George Washington depicted as Cincinnatus.
http://www.history.org/foundation/journal/autumn03/houdon.cfm
http://www.mountvernon.org/digital-encyclopedia/article/cincinnatus/
But yesterday I first read a comparison of Washington with
Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus Cunctator. On page 182 of "SPQR"
https://www.amazon.com/SPQR-History-Ancient-Mary-Beard/dp/1631492225/
"George Washington, the 'American Fabius', as he was sometimes
called, opted for similar tactics at the start of the American
War of Independence, harassing rather than directly engaging
the enemy [...]"
Today I found the mid 20th-century token at
http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_1382669
Fabian tactics have been used to contain many Hannibal like threats.
Hence guerrilla armies.
I was referred to a fascinating statue of Washington depicted as
a Roman General.
http://docsouth.unc.edu/commland/monument/407/
The educated in his days were far better educated than today's so called
educated, who are merely trained.
Especially in the Humanities.
They were indeed!
The following is from the 23 Dec 2001 issue of Northeast Magazine,
which was an insert in The Hartford (CT) Courant ["The Root (or
Route) of Treason," by Kyrie O'Connor, Page 2].
"Of course, as is often noted, one man's traitor is another man's
freedom fighter. Patrick Henry's historical references will sail
over the heads of many college grads these days. But they must
have stirred the Virginia House of Burgesses in 1765 when he
proclaimed: 'Tarquin and Caesar each had his Brutus, Charles the
First his Cromwell, and George the Third may profit by their
example. If this be treason, make the most of it.'"
On page 42 of Joseph J. Ellis' "Founding Brothers" (Knopf), there
is a comment that Alexander Hamilton made about Aaron Burr during
the disputed presidential election of 1800. During one debate in
the House, Hamilton referred to Burr as: "He is truly the Catiline
of America." Ellis comments that, while most American university
students would be completely baffled by this analogy, in those
days most people knew exactly what Hamilton was talking about.
Hamilton could have compared Burr with Caligula, he restrained himself.
Catiline after all had one or two good qualities, like valor.
The Horny Goat
2018-03-03 03:35:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by D***@teikyopost.edu
On page 42 of Joseph J. Ellis' "Founding Brothers" (Knopf), there
is a comment that Alexander Hamilton made about Aaron Burr during
the disputed presidential election of 1800. During one debate in
the House, Hamilton referred to Burr as: "He is truly the Catiline
of America." Ellis comments that, while most American university
students would be completely baffled by this analogy, in those
days most people knew exactly what Hamilton was talking about.
Most Americans today would not know who Lord Haw Haw was. Those who
had taken a history course would guess (but likely not know) who Axis
Sally was but that she had something to do with World War 2. (I had
originally written WW2 but realized some might not get the
abbreviation)

My point is that William Joyce (aka Lord Haw Haw) was much more recent
than Hamilton or Burr (and most Americans these days would not know
about the connection between those two) much less Catiline.

You would be astonished at the number of blank looks I get when I say
that one of the great ironies of history is that it's been 70 years
since George Orwell wrote Nineteen Eighty-Four and there are now more
than 30 CCTV cameras within 100 metres of where Orwell lived when he
wrote it.
Tiglath
2018-03-03 15:25:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Horny Goat
Post by D***@teikyopost.edu
On page 42 of Joseph J. Ellis' "Founding Brothers" (Knopf), there
is a comment that Alexander Hamilton made about Aaron Burr during
the disputed presidential election of 1800. During one debate in
the House, Hamilton referred to Burr as: "He is truly the Catiline
of America." Ellis comments that, while most American university
students would be completely baffled by this analogy, in those
days most people knew exactly what Hamilton was talking about.
Most Americans today would not know who Lord Haw Haw was. Those who
had taken a history course would guess (but likely not know) who Axis
Sally was but that she had something to do with World War 2. (I had
originally written WW2 but realized some might not get the
abbreviation)
My point is that William Joyce (aka Lord Haw Haw) was much more recent
than Hamilton or Burr (and most Americans these days would not know
about the connection between those two) much less Catiline.
You would be astonished at the number of blank looks I get when I say
that one of the great ironies of history is that it's been 70 years
since George Orwell wrote Nineteen Eighty-Four and there are now more
than 30 CCTV cameras within 100 metres of where Orwell lived when he
wrote it.
Historical characters, facts and events have different degrees of popularity.

Almost anyone understands Caesar and Cleopatra, and others in popular discourse,
but Joyce and Catiline requires a Western education that involves reading less
popular books, which most would not find page turners. Luckily the Lord made
me so that I can't put down Livy, Cicero, Polybius, Tacitus and the rest of that
ancient lot. Medievals not so much, but I one learns here, eventually.

What's with the UK and cameras, by the way? So many shops warn you at the door
that you are on CCTV. I understand it in Harrods, but it's even so if you buy only a box of matches.

Paranoia big destroyer.
The Horny Goat
2018-03-04 02:36:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiglath
What's with the UK and cameras, by the way? So many shops warn you at the door
that you are on CCTV. I understand it in Harrods, but it's even so if you buy only a box of matches.
I'm not really in a position to talk to this as my store has 20-odd
cameras with the video never getting looked at except after the fact
to determine what went wrong.

Peter Jason
2018-03-03 03:36:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by D***@teikyopost.edu
Post by Tiglath
Post by D***@teikyopost.edu
I have seen images of George Washington depicted as Cincinnatus.
http://www.history.org/foundation/journal/autumn03/houdon.cfm
http://www.mountvernon.org/digital-encyclopedia/article/cincinnatus/
But yesterday I first read a comparison of Washington with
Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus Cunctator. On page 182 of "SPQR"
https://www.amazon.com/SPQR-History-Ancient-Mary-Beard/dp/1631492225/
"George Washington, the 'American Fabius', as he was sometimes
called, opted for similar tactics at the start of the American
War of Independence, harassing rather than directly engaging
the enemy [...]"
Today I found the mid 20th-century token at
http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_1382669
Fabian tactics have been used to contain many Hannibal like threats.
Hence guerrilla armies.
I was referred to a fascinating statue of Washington depicted as
a Roman General.
http://docsouth.unc.edu/commland/monument/407/
Curious. Better portrayed as a peevish boy with an axe next to a
ruined cheery tree.
Eric Stevens
2018-03-03 22:00:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Jason
Post by D***@teikyopost.edu
Post by Tiglath
Post by D***@teikyopost.edu
I have seen images of George Washington depicted as Cincinnatus.
http://www.history.org/foundation/journal/autumn03/houdon.cfm
http://www.mountvernon.org/digital-encyclopedia/article/cincinnatus/
But yesterday I first read a comparison of Washington with
Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus Cunctator. On page 182 of "SPQR"
https://www.amazon.com/SPQR-History-Ancient-Mary-Beard/dp/1631492225/
"George Washington, the 'American Fabius', as he was sometimes
called, opted for similar tactics at the start of the American
War of Independence, harassing rather than directly engaging
the enemy [...]"
Today I found the mid 20th-century token at
http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_1382669
Fabian tactics have been used to contain many Hannibal like threats.
Hence guerrilla armies.
I was referred to a fascinating statue of Washington depicted as
a Roman General.
http://docsouth.unc.edu/commland/monument/407/
Curious. Better portrayed as a peevish boy with an axe next to a
ruined cheery tree.
Perpetuating a myth is not an improvement.
--
Regards,

Eric Stevens
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